Hurtigruten’s RICHARD WITH

LasseS

Member
Det er tydeligvis veldig vanskelig å beregne nødvendig tidsbruk for verftsopphold. Samtlige de ferger, i rute fra Trelleborg til Kontinentet, som har vært på verftsoversyn i vinter; TOM SAWYER, MECKLENBURG-VORPOMMERN, SKÅNE, &c. &c. er kommet seinere tilbake enn oppgitt i opprinnelige seilplaner. Hvordan foregår det? Presses verftene til å love kortere opphold enn de vet at de klarer av, og får stå for tapet?
Hurtigruten har nå lagt ut at turen er kansellert fra Bergen til Tromsø grunnet tekniske problemer. Nordlys går vel da direkte til Tromsø, og tar opp ruten derfra på søndag..
 

ropax

Member
Hvorfor en helt ny baug? Og så er jo KONG HARALD, RICHARD WITH og NORDLYS søsterskip, så hvorfor denne forskjellen i ombygging?

I don´t know - but the complete "propellsystem" is planned to become new also. Furthermore is space needed for a big battery-room.
Each ship gets 2 new diesel-engines more fuel-efficient. Some more infos here:
"In what is described as one of the largest environmental upgrades in the history of European shipping"

The 3 ships are the oldest "90ies" from 1993/94 - so each nearly 30 years (!) old if these technical XXL-renovation is completed.
Big balcony-cabins are normal standard since many years on all cruise-ships all over the world - how long is the livetime planned for these 3 old ships which are now getting the technical XXL-upgrade, 40, 50, 60 years ?

The agenda of the new CEO is to have "energy-visions" and she has no experiences before in other cruise-ship companies... - this explains the absolute focus on the "green climate-saving Greta-wave". So less emissions as possible - money doesn`t matter... . The norwegian supply companies are happy to get big work now for Hurtigruten, 3 really old ships become some technical mainparts brandnew - but for how much of the passengers/tourists is this really important ??? Especially germans between 50 and 90 years old (= a big customer-group for Hurtigruten) is the "Geiz is geil" generation
https://cdn.prod.www.spiegel.de/ima...528_r1.3277372262773723_fpx38.27_fpy44.82.jpg
and is looking for each Euro mostly - but are not interested to be the greenest of the world. Sure, "Gretas green friends" would book the greenest ships worldwide - but how much people are this ? And does this people have the money for the Hurtigruten-prices ?

So really many millions of Euro now for technical upgrades - but the most normal tourists are more interested in big balcony cabins, good prices, modern design, nice public rooms, big windows, XXXL whirlpools and saunas/bastu/spa, good normal food (=not vegan).

One exampel: If there would be ships with big balcony-cabins including balcony-heatings - this would be extremly popular for the tourists - and a big point against all other cruise-ships. Not green - but very comfortable. And much cheaper than new engines etc. . https://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/pictures/terrassen/heizstrahler-unter-markise-auf-penthouse-terrasse-tansun™-europe-img~c531be6c0d50413d_4-9670-1-65a55fb.jpg

To Risberg: I think it was a number days longer as planned with the Peter Pan lenthening, ca. 5,6,7,8,9,10 days longer... . Then was big discussion about the contract-delays-fees and Nils Holgersson becomes never lengthened... .
 

VegardM

New Member
Høres ut som en veldig lang tid å bruke på en ombygning til hybriddrift. Kan ikke være langt unna å svare seg å kontrahere nybygg.
Hør med Havila hvordan det er å bygge nytt for tiden. Om jeg ikke husker feil ble vel også Hurtigrutens egen Roald Amundsen ett år forsinket, og det fra norsk verft...
Kan godt forstå at en ombygning til batterihybrid tar lang tid, og om båtene i utgangspunktet passer til jobben de skal gjøre og er i god stand tror jeg det er fornuftig på mange måter å benytte eksisterende tonnasje for slike ombygninger.
 

Risberg

Active Member
Hør med Havila hvordan det er å bygge nytt for tiden. Om jeg ikke husker feil ble vel også Hurtigrutens egen Roald Amundsen ett år forsinket, og det fra norsk verft...
Kan godt forstå at en ombygning til batterihybrid tar lang tid, og om båtene i utgangspunktet passer til jobben de skal gjøre og er i god stand tror jeg det er fornuftig på mange måter å benytte eksisterende tonnasje for slike ombygninger.
Og FRIDTJOF NANSEN!

ropax: Hurtigruten er ikke cruiseskip men arbejdende kystpassajer- og fraktskip. Og seiler på en rute, hvor halve strekningen er nord for polarsirkelen!
 

ropax

Member
"Hurtigruten er ikke cruiseskip men arbejdende kystpassajer- og fraktskip. Og seiler på en rute, hvor halve strekningen er nord for polarsirkelen!"

This was the situation before the arrival of the 90ies fleet about we are actually in discussion. In the last 3 decades the old historic "Postschiffroute" connecting small villages with small towns at the norwegian coast inkluding some local passengers and freight-transport it has changed up today to a 99% cruise-route with a high number Pax from Germany, Swiss, Austria, USA, Asia etc. - they have a worldwide marketing similar as the Jungfraujoch-train in Swiss which is mostly only used by rich asians today (to expensive for the most germans/europeans). And nearly the only freight onboard the Hurtigruten-ships today are the cars from german tourists which are booking sometimes one-way only and go by car to/from Kirkenes the other way. This is also the reason for the cutting of the port-times. In the 80ies/90ies in many ports was the stop some hours - also needed for loading of local freight.
But now in the most ports it is a mini-stop of some minutes only similar as the Tax-Free-Stop in Mariehamn or Langnäs from Viking Line and Silja Line. On the ships is all "perfect" for german tourists, f.ex. there are special lessons from nature-experts in german onboard and furthermore are especially german "Reiseleiter" onboard also which already start the package-tour onboard Color Line Kiel-Oslo, help the tourists in the train to Bergen etc. .

The number of norwegian locals using the ships in a kind of a ferry or bus on a short piece of the route is less then 1 % today - also because of "1000s" of new bridges, tunnels and better and faster ferry-connections between the Fjords and the Coast-Islands. If there are f.ex. going onboard 4, 5, 6 people in Bodö and leaving the ship in the Lofoten some hours later it is less than 1% of the cruise-people onboard. So Hurtigruten is really a cruise today - with the possibility to book short passages of the route also separately.

From the economical side this XXXL-technical renovation of the oldest 90ies ships is crazy, but maybe Hurtigruten has so much money that this is not a problem (???), the same with to have now for 21 month (= 3 x 7) a ship less in the fleet. As said - if the renovation is finished the ships are 30 years old what is a normal ship-lifetime. Many other big cruiseships from the 90ies are already now as scrap in Aliaga or Alang. The better solution would be to prepare now in 2022/2023 a new green ship-concept for the future, order f. ex. 2 new ships (+ options for ca. 3 more) this in end 2023 and then in 2026/2027 would be the first new GREEN newbuildings going in use.
Then the RICHARD WITH, KONG HARALD, NORDLYS etc. are 33/34 years old and could be sold anywhere and Hurtigruten would have the most modernst newest greenest ships - and newer than the 2021/2022 built "konkurrenz-"ships from Havila. Little later inkluding the options in 2030 the 7 ships Hurtigruten-Coastline-fleet could be 5 newbuildings, 1 old renovated ship from the 90ies for "historic-ships-lovers" and the Trollfjord from 2002.

But now these old ships must be in use very long time more because of to justify the extremly high actually financial investments only for win the race to be "the greenest of the greens" against the Havila Slogan "Die umweltfreundlichsten Schiffe entlang der norwegischen Küste".

By the way maybe an interesting actually pricecheck, all prices per person in a double-inside including all meals:

- 14 days Kiel-Nordkapp-Kiel including in the most ports ca. 8 hours stay (via Bergen, Geiranger, Kristiansund, Lofoten-Leknes, Tromsö, Nordkap, Florö, Göteborg) with the fresh renovated VASCO DA GAMA € 1654,- starting 29.9. (booking via Kreuzfahrtberater.de).
- 11/12 days Havila-Voyages Bergen-Kirkenes-Bergen € 2882,- starting (exampel) 30.9. with HAVILA CASTOR ((+ additional costs for a flight or ferry to Bergen, available cheap f.ex. from Hamburg via Gdansk from € 16,- one-way))

- 11/12 days Hurtigruten Bergen-Kirkenes-Bergen inkluding Color Line Kiel-Oslo-Kiel and the Bergen-train and 1 hotelnight € 2979,- starting different days in march (not possible to book later than march actually)
- 11/12 days Hurtigruten Bergen-Kirkenes-Bergen in sept. € 2111,- ((+ additional costs for a flight or ferry to Bergen, available cheap f.ex. from Hamburg via Gdansk from € 16,- one-way))

So Havila and Hurtigruten offers both similar very high prices, but Hurtigruten is cheaper inkl. "early-booking-special" - but both are much higher than "normal" much bigger cruise-ships. The normal cruise-ships has less stops at the coast - but the people has much more time to explore the country at the stops, in these exampel with VASCO DA GAMA f.ex. 27 hours in Tromsö and mostly ca. 8 hours in the other ports, 9 hours on the Nordkap-Island. Without Nordkap "normal" cruises with Costa, Aida, MSC etc. are much cheaper, so maybe the best solution for people who want invest ca. 2800,- € for the norwegian coast is to book 2 trips each ca. 12 days, one including Nordkap (as in the `VASCO DA GAMA exampel) and the second for ca. 1100,-/1200,- Euro only with other stops (f.ex. inkluding Molde, Alesund, Trondheim also) = much more "double" holiday-time for the nearly the same money as only 1 trip with Hurtigruten or Havila.
Extra-point: "Normal" cruises ships starts directly in Kiel, Bremerhaven or Amsterdam - no flight or ferry/train needed and cheaper prices onboard for drinks than with Hurtigruten.
And: All Hurtigruten-prices in my exampel inkludes only a very small 2-beds cabin 8-11qm with 2 single-beds.
 
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Risberg

Active Member
This was the situation before the arrival of the 90ies fleet about we are actually in discussion. In the last 3 decades the old historic "Postschiffroute" connecting small villages with small towns at the norwegian coast inkluding some local passengers and freight-transport it has changed up today to a 99% cruise-route with a high number Pax from Germany, Swiss, Austria, USA, Asia etc. - they have a worldwide marketing similar as the Jungfraujoch-train in Swiss which is mostly only used by rich asians today (to expensive for the most germans/europeans). And nearly the only freight onboard the Hurtigruten-ships today are the cars from german tourists which are booking sometimes one-way only and go by car to/from Kirkenes the other way. This is also the reason for the cutting of the port-times. In the 80ies/90ies in many ports was the stop some hours - also needed for loading of local freight.
But now in the most ports it is a mini-stop of some minutes only similar as the Tax-Free-Stop in Mariehamn or Langnäs from Viking Line and Silja Line. On the ships is all "perfect" for german tourists, f.ex. there are special lessons from nature-experts in german onboard and furthermore are especially german "Reiseleiter" onboard also which already start the package-tour onboard Color Line Kiel-Oslo, help the tourists in the train to Bergen etc. .

The number of norwegian locals using the ships in a kind of a ferry or bus on a short piece of the route is less then 1 % today - also because of "1000s" of new bridges, tunnels and better and faster ferry-connections between the Fjords and the Coast-Islands. If there are f.ex. going onboard 4, 5, 6 people in Bodö and leaving the ship in the Lofoten some hours later it is less than 1% of the cruise-people onboard. So Hurtigruten is really a cruise today - with the possibility to book short passages of the route also separately.
Du uttaler deg skråsikkert, som om du var en ekspert og med nøyaktige prosenttal. Jeg går ut fra at du baserer din statistikk på dine iakttakelser som helårsboende på mange anløpssteder langs den nordnorske kyst?

Cruiseturism på hurtigruten/kystruten er ikke noe nytt, men har hurtigrutrederiene bedrevet siden hurtigrutens barndom, også til Svalbard og Grønland. Men om kystruten ikke var en viktig transportrute ville den ikke ha blitt subsidiert gjennom offentlig opphandling. Den fungerer som lokaltransportmiddel i Vesterålen/Lofoten og den er en viktig livsnerve i Finnmark. En av dens viktige oppgaver er å transportere fersk fisk. Postbefordringen er dog fjernet.

Rutetidene er stort sett uforandret siden lang tid tilbake, muligens med litt kortere liggetider i de allerminste havnene og at det ser ut som om man nu om vinteren ligger lenge i Ålesund for å ha samme seilplan hele året - om sommeren går skipene innom Geirangerfjorden. Største forskjellen er vel at Vadsø nu kun har et kort opphold på nord (øst) om morgenen og at Stokmarknes har en hel time på syd, for at turistene skal rekke Hurtigrutemuseet.

Uansett, å sammenligne kystruteskipenes levetid med ro/pax-fergers er ikke særlig relevant.
So Havila and Hurtigruten offers both similar very high prices, but Hurtigruten is cheaper inkl. "early-booking-special" - but both are much higher than "normal" much bigger cruise-ships. The normal cruise-ships has less stops at the coast - but the people has much more time to explore the country at the stops, in these exampel with VASCO DA GAMA f.ex. 27 hours in Tromsö and mostly ca. 8 hours in the other ports, 9 hours on the Nordkap-Island. Without Nordkap "normal" cruises with Costa, Aida, MSC etc. are much cheaper, so maybe the best solution for people who want invest ca. 2800,- € for the norwegian coast is to book 2 trips each ca. 12 days, one including Nordkap (as in the `VASCO DA GAMA exampel) and the second for ca. 1100,-/1200,- Euro only with other stops (f.ex. inkluding Molde, Alesund, Trondheim also) = much more "double" holiday-time for the nearly the same money as only 1 trip with Hurtigruten or Havila.
Extra-point: "Normal" cruises ships starts directly in Kiel, Bremerhaven or Amsterdam - no flight or ferry/train needed and cheaper prices onboard for drinks than with Hurtigruten.
Når det gjelder Hurtigrutens priser, se min tråd

Pol till pol-eventyr – det ultimate ekspedisjonscruiset for en "bucketlist"​

 
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ropax

Member
Ok (to Risberg), than we have just different opinions. I think that the extremly small number of local short-part-passengers doesn`t matter. Also in Nord-Norge are in meantime many buslines via new bridges and better roads then 30, 50 or 70 years ago and also more "Hurtigboats" operating much faster, more often, with better times (in many ports Hurtigruten is stopping in the night !) and cheaper than with Hurtigruten. So 99% of the money (or maybe 96/97/98 or 99,5 - it doesn`t matter) is coming from the cruise-tourists. And also some "Paletten" with fresh-fish-boxes are financial not important. Each ship has ca. 250 cabins - so it is easy to calculate how much money this is from the cruise passengers against eventually 1, 2, 3 persons which are coming onboard f.ex. 3:00 in the night in Vardö for to go to Kirkenes (costs 564 Krones one-way without cabin !) or from Stamsund to Svolvaer. In some countries like f.ex. in USA/Canada the prices for Hurtigruten are much higher also as f.ex. for german tourists - so a medium-price per person will be more than 4000,- Euro for a 12-days-trip + drinks on board + excursions, USA-tourists can f.ex. book a astronomic day in Tromsö.

To Oskar: If any company has a fleet of f.ex. 10 ships (any kind, container, bulk, tanker, cruise, ferry etc.), airplanes, Taxis, touristbuses, trucks - all these transportation-vehicles must in perfect case running in use 24/7 always. Every extra-minute in any port or airport f.ex. is lost money. Every minute earlier a ship or plane (or taxi, truck, touristbus etc.) can start again it can earn the next money from customers, so what Ryanair and others are doing (to press the time in the airports every minute extremly down) is not a joke but saves a lot of money every day 3, 4, 5, 6 times with every plane from the big fleet, f.ex. 6 x 5 min every day = 30min less payment for the crew also. So every minute parking and hanging around anywhere empty costs definitely a lot money. So in this exampel the TROLLFJORD is needed now in Hurtigruten JUST BECAUSE OF THE XXXL-technical renovation of 3 other ships for the next 21 month and can not offer now other cruise-routes for to earn money. So now 630 days 1 ship can not earn money - but all the other costs (f.ex. the capital-costs) also are running every day and every hour. Every economic expert can explain it better in details.
 

Risberg

Active Member
ropax, jeg tror at vi har klart for oss nu hvordan du ser på saken. Argumentene blir ikke bedre fordi om man gjentar dem om og om igjen. God Helg!
 
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Refvik

Administrator
Staff member
With some photos of "Richard With" during docking at Myklebust Verft, let's end the dicussion about different opinions and stick to the topic about "Richard With" hybridization.

I have also copied two post for another tread (now two first posting this topic) showing that this re-building was mention already 26th of August 2021
Richard With 01.jpg

Richard With 02.jpg
Both fotos: Myklebust Verft
 

Refvik

Administrator
Staff member
"Richard With" i dokka til Myklebust Verft idag
RichardWith.jpg

Foto: © Oddgeir Refvik
 

Håkon Lunde

Active Member
Richard with har idag grunnstøtt i ytre steinsundet på sørgående til Bergen.

Fartøyet var vel akkuratt ferdig med miljø oppgradering ved Myklebust Verft og på vei til Bergen for å gå inn i hurtigrute trafikk igjen, så det var ingen passasjerer ombord.
 

Risberg

Active Member
Har hon fått tilbake "cola-merket" på skorsteinen, som tydeligvis var fjernet på bildet av Refvik?
 

Refvik

Administrator
Staff member
Så teknisk feil, skal tilbake til Myklebust Verft for rep av den samt skrogskader
14992753.jpg
Foto: NTB/Isak Kvillo

Screenshot_20220805-113903_MarineTraffic.jpg
Kart/Track: MarineTraffic
 

Refvik

Administrator
Staff member
 
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