The TT fleet in 2022
- Thread starter ropax
- Start date
I hope really that this often "TT-timetable-chaos" in the last 2, 3 years is finished in 2023 when both newbuildings are in use.
PETER PAN is now on the way to Travemünde with slowly 15,7 knots in 7:45 hours. In theoretic possible ca. 5,5 hours with circa 23 knots it would be attractive with the newbuildings (sea-trials with 25 knots).
I like to honor / reward if a ferry is operate with a faster speed than others, in the 90ies i have often used TTs Delphin also - but now maybe Hansa-Destinations with the Drotten is an alternative for me - in the last 24 hours mostly operating with fast ca. 25, 26 knots. If you travel f.ex. Köln-Norrköping many ferry-lines are possible.
PETER PAN is now on the way to Travemünde with slowly 15,7 knots in 7:45 hours. In theoretic possible ca. 5,5 hours with circa 23 knots it would be attractive with the newbuildings (sea-trials with 25 knots).
I like to honor / reward if a ferry is operate with a faster speed than others, in the 90ies i have often used TTs Delphin also - but now maybe Hansa-Destinations with the Drotten is an alternative for me - in the last 24 hours mostly operating with fast ca. 25, 26 knots. If you travel f.ex. Köln-Norrköping many ferry-lines are possible.
I think this is generally a big problem on most ferries and especially to Sweden. To avoid poor food in expensive restaurants we mostly choose the nightferries from Finnlines to Malmö or we go via Flensburg and the 2 big bridges in the last 20 years. With this night-ferry we have a good meal in the evening in a greek restaurant nearby Lübeck f.ex. BEFORE the ferry - then long sleeping onboard, wake up in bastu/sauna and then breakfast nearby Lund. So never food and drink onboard, taking drinks from the car inside the cabin.
I don`t need 1st class luxury food - but i wish normal food ("Husmanskost/DagensRätt") with good value for money. And this is not to find on Scandlines, Stena and TT-Line today. If any ferry could offer a good meal for a cheap price - we would take especially this ferry always.
And - yes, you are right - i have just checked reports from other travellers with Destination Gotland - all reports said that the food onboard is expensive... - so we can not book the DROTTEN (or we must buy before boarding a lot of sandwiches etc. in a german supermarket and have a poor picnic onboard). The ticketprices are also to high, the Drotten has to less cabins for to offer cheaper prices. Last alternative is Polferries if they buy the HONFLEUR really...
(but with the car to Swinoujscie is a much longer way from West-Germany, maybe 1-time for to see the ferry, Brittany-ferry-ships are normally one class better than other ferries).
I don`t need 1st class luxury food - but i wish normal food ("Husmanskost/DagensRätt") with good value for money. And this is not to find on Scandlines, Stena and TT-Line today. If any ferry could offer a good meal for a cheap price - we would take especially this ferry always.
And - yes, you are right - i have just checked reports from other travellers with Destination Gotland - all reports said that the food onboard is expensive... - so we can not book the DROTTEN (or we must buy before boarding a lot of sandwiches etc. in a german supermarket and have a poor picnic onboard). The ticketprices are also to high, the Drotten has to less cabins for to offer cheaper prices. Last alternative is Polferries if they buy the HONFLEUR really...
(but with the car to Swinoujscie is a much longer way from West-Germany, maybe 1-time for to see the ferry, Brittany-ferry-ships are normally one class better than other ferries).Obviously not on Finnlines either....
The problem on the DROTTEN is not the prices but the poor selection and that you have to buy it in a kiosk.
But we obviously have different preferences; for you cheep food, for me quality. As already mentioned, the Germans on COLOR MAGIC and COLOR FANTASY tend to eat in the buffet, the Norwegians "fine dining" in the aft restaurant or the gourmet restaurant on the balcony.
Yes - germans prefer mostly Buffet instead of A-la-carte... . But how many germans you have seen there inside the restaurant ? 10 ? 20 ? 30 ? Ferry-Capacity is 2600 persons and ca. 90-95% of the germans onboard eat nothing - this is my experience with Color Line. And the few other germans in restaurants are "rich people" (dentist etc.) or have a special day, like birthday or marriage-day. Especially Color Line is a luxury-ferry and mostly for Norwegians, the most people onboard are from Norway also. Just i have read an actually check of the prices between Germany and Norway: If you pay 1 Euro for something in Germany (exampel-city Bremen) you need to pay 1,62 Euro for the same thing in Norway. So for all "normal" Germans are norwegian prices to high. So if the Color Line Buffet-Dinner costs 35,20 Euro for germans would be 21,70 Euro a "OK-price" - but 35,20 Euro is to high - only OK for Norwegians. And please don`t forget: Most people are not travelling alone, if you are 3, 4, 5 people every price-difference will be much higher... .
Yes, sometimes i think that this is a "Backpackers-Brake". This kind of single-travellers often spend no money onboard - so it is better if the free places are going to travellers with car "maybe spending eventually some money onboard"... . And "normal" single-travellers as you has then to pay higher prices... .
I think next timetable-chaos is latest 14.april :
Then you can book 20:45 from Trelleborg to Swinoujscie with PETER PAN
AND
you can book 22:00 from Trelleborg to Travemünde with PETER PAN - but both in the same night is not possible... .
Similar with TOM SAWYER same day:
0:45 from Trelleborg to Rostock
AND
2:00 from Trelleborg to Swinousjcie
ROBIN HOOD has 2 departures from Travemünde to Trelleborg 22:00 (14.4.) and 2:30 (friday 15.4.)
And Trelleborg-Klaipeda with Marco Polo is not possible to book (or full) later than 10.april.
So maybe the "double-departures" will then replaced by AKKA and the new NILS HOLGERSSON ?
And the 3rd "double" will be then with MARCO POLO ?
. And "normal" single-travellers as you has then to pay higher prices... .I think next timetable-chaos is latest 14.april :
Then you can book 20:45 from Trelleborg to Swinoujscie with PETER PAN
AND
you can book 22:00 from Trelleborg to Travemünde with PETER PAN - but both in the same night is not possible... .
Similar with TOM SAWYER same day:
0:45 from Trelleborg to Rostock
AND
2:00 from Trelleborg to Swinousjcie
ROBIN HOOD has 2 departures from Travemünde to Trelleborg 22:00 (14.4.) and 2:30 (friday 15.4.)
And Trelleborg-Klaipeda with Marco Polo is not possible to book (or full) later than 10.april.
So maybe the "double-departures" will then replaced by AKKA and the new NILS HOLGERSSON ?
And the 3rd "double" will be then with MARCO POLO ?
Søndag 30. januar:
soll die TOM SAWYER um 16.30 nach Travemünde fahren (sie liegt aber immer noch in Klaipéda!)
soll die HUCKLEBERRY FINN um 17.30 nach Rostock fahren (sie fährt erst jetzt von Rostock ab)
ist natürlich die Abfahrt der NILS HOLGERSSON nach Travemünde um 22 Uhr eingestellt
soll die ROBIN HOOD um 23 Uhr nach Rostock fahren (sie liegt immer noch in Świnoujście)
und soll die PETER PAN um 23.30 nach Świnoujście fahren
17.11: Wieder merkwürdigen Angaben im TT-Line Segelplan. Jetzt ist die Abfahrt nach Travemünde der TOM SAWYER gestrichen (sie liegt immer noch in Klaipéda), aber dann soll die ROBIN HOOD sowohl nach Świnoujście um 21.30 als nach Rostock um 23 Uhr heute Abend abfahren. Das läßt sich kaum machen...
Die HUCKLEBERY FINN soll um 17.30 nach Rostock abfahren, ist aber noch nicht an Trelleborg gekommen!
20.22: Abfahrt HUCKLEBERRY FINN 20.15.
Die PETER PAN übernimmt die Rostock-Abfahrt der ROBIN HOOD, die 21.30 Uhr nach Świnoujście fährt. Abfahrt PETER PAN 01.30. Keine Abfahrt nach Travemünde heute Abend.
Und in Klaipéda liegen die MARCO POLO und TOM SAWYER....
13.03: Laut der letzten Segelplan der TT-Line
soll die TOM SAWYER um 16.30 nach Travemünde fahren (sie liegt aber immer noch in Klaipéda!)
soll die HUCKLEBERRY FINN um 17.30 nach Rostock fahren (sie fährt erst jetzt von Rostock ab)
ist natürlich die Abfahrt der NILS HOLGERSSON nach Travemünde um 22 Uhr eingestellt
soll die ROBIN HOOD um 23 Uhr nach Rostock fahren (sie liegt immer noch in Świnoujście)
und soll die PETER PAN um 23.30 nach Świnoujście fahren
17.11: Wieder merkwürdigen Angaben im TT-Line Segelplan. Jetzt ist die Abfahrt nach Travemünde der TOM SAWYER gestrichen (sie liegt immer noch in Klaipéda), aber dann soll die ROBIN HOOD sowohl nach Świnoujście um 21.30 als nach Rostock um 23 Uhr heute Abend abfahren. Das läßt sich kaum machen...
Die HUCKLEBERY FINN soll um 17.30 nach Rostock abfahren, ist aber noch nicht an Trelleborg gekommen!
20.22: Abfahrt HUCKLEBERRY FINN 20.15.
Die PETER PAN übernimmt die Rostock-Abfahrt der ROBIN HOOD, die 21.30 Uhr nach Świnoujście fährt. Abfahrt PETER PAN 01.30. Keine Abfahrt nach Travemünde heute Abend.
Und in Klaipéda liegen die MARCO POLO und TOM SAWYER....
Yes - in these days was / is a storm with cancelled departures - so the timetable is maximal confused... . The bigger problem is that often in the last years there was delayed ferries without any storm... . It is really urgent that TT gets the ordered newbuildings - but until today no news from China... . But if we see the timetable in april i think that TT is hoping that the new NILS HOLGERSSON can go in service from april.
Det som forårsaker de fleste forsinkelsene for TT-Line (og Stena Line) er at man undervurderer hvor lang tid det tar å losse og laste dem. De er alltid mer forsinket ved avgang enn ved ankomst. Jeg lurer på hvordan nye, enda større ferger skal bøte på det problemet, med mindre man begynner å lage ruteplaner med realistisk liggetid i havnene.
Idag står det f.eks. at HUCKLEBERRY FINN skal avgå 23.55 til Rostock Enligt tidtabell. Det er bare det at den, TOM SAWYER eller ROBIN HOOD alltid pleier å gå 23.30 til Rostock mandager. Så Enligt hvilken tidtabell da?
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We are back to topic and one of the main-problems, the newbuildings can load max. ca. 240 19m-trucks each. But the problem is generally that the number of trailers (without driver) is increasing in the last 20 years. But every minute longer stay in the port is lost money - so if the delays are because of the high number of trailers they need more tugs and tug-drivers in the ports. And if more and more trailers in the future - maybe then it is better to operate with one or two additional 100% freighters (with capacity for 12 Pax) just for trailers. Other ferry-companies like Stena and DFDS to England f.ex. has already this system with "Trailer-Ferries" and "RoPax-Ferries" side by side, also Color Line has such a freighter.
I have already made earlier the proposal that TT could replace both old RoPax on the Rostock-Trelleborg route with 2 "so big as possible" Katamarans/Trimarans from Austal or Incat with capacity for ca. 40 "fast" 19m trucks with driver (and a number of cars) with service-speed ca. 31 knots. And additional an (cheap older used slowly) 100% RoRo-freighter just only for "slowly" trailers. These freighters are cheap and the crew is very very small only = very small costs. And also the fast-ferries would need much smaller crews than the actually RoPax-Ferries.
Both newbuildings only on TRA-TRE with 2 fast day-departures and 1 long night-trip and both routes to Germany would be good and modern and with more capacity and departures then today. And the 4 older ferries from 1995 and 2001 (NILS DACKE, ROBIN HOOD, AKKA, PETER PAN) are for the routes to Klaipeda and Polen and the 2 oldest HUCK FINN and TOM SAWYER (and Marco Polo) will leave the fleet. If TT want in longterm hold again DFDS to Klaipeda they need 2 ferries for this route also - and 2 ferries to Polen.
I have already made earlier the proposal that TT could replace both old RoPax on the Rostock-Trelleborg route with 2 "so big as possible" Katamarans/Trimarans from Austal or Incat with capacity for ca. 40 "fast" 19m trucks with driver (and a number of cars) with service-speed ca. 31 knots. And additional an (cheap older used slowly) 100% RoRo-freighter just only for "slowly" trailers. These freighters are cheap and the crew is very very small only = very small costs. And also the fast-ferries would need much smaller crews than the actually RoPax-Ferries.
Both newbuildings only on TRA-TRE with 2 fast day-departures and 1 long night-trip and both routes to Germany would be good and modern and with more capacity and departures then today. And the 4 older ferries from 1995 and 2001 (NILS DACKE, ROBIN HOOD, AKKA, PETER PAN) are for the routes to Klaipeda and Polen and the 2 oldest HUCK FINN and TOM SAWYER (and Marco Polo) will leave the fleet. If TT want in longterm hold again DFDS to Klaipeda they need 2 ferries for this route also - and 2 ferries to Polen.
Helt riktig, We are back to topic, med andre ord du gjentar deg selv, med dine forslag om hurtigferger. TT-Line har allerede prøvd 100% Roro-freighters i 60- 70-årene. De het WASA og HANSA og efterhvert utviklet det seg til at TT-Line lot alle ferger være ro/pax-ferger. Det samme gjorde SJ/DR. STUBBENKAMMER, GÖTALAND, SVEALAND og ROSTOCK var rene godsferger, for maks 12 passasjerer – STUBBENKAMMER ble raskt tatt ut av rute, GÖTALAND og ROSTOCK ble bygget om til ro/pax-ferger. Og TT-Line har testet DELPHIN. Intet nytt under solen. Jeg tror vi er ferdig med denne drøftingen nu. Men Stena Line skulle nok juble, hvis TT-Line begrenset sin Rostock-trafikk til to anløp dagtid i hver retning, mot fire idag.
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"Men Stena Line skulle nok juble, hvis TT-Line begrenset sin Rostock-trafikk til to anløp dagtid i hver retning, mot fire idag".
This was not my idea... and i know - YOU do not like Katamarans and Trimarans... . But the Rostock-Trelleborg route is not optimal for a classic RoPax-Route, sleeping-time for truck-drivers is to short and for all other customer-groups the traveltime is too long. And TT could with "my proposal" offer to all customer-groups then much more than Stena could.
"Fast-maran" 1 and "Fast-maran" 2 ca. 140m x 35m with capacity for ca. 40 19m trucks + ca. 250 cars in a symmetric timetable with CIRCA 31 knots and traveltime CIRCA 3:10 min every 4:15min hours: 7:00 - 11:15 - 15:30 - 19:45
And then so much as possible of the trailer-customers shall change to Travemünde and Swinousjcie. And if the number of "Rostock-trailers" is still high - THEN use of a additional freighter which also can be a RoPax with small capacity like Marco Polo f.ex. . So it is depending of the freight-customers... . How much trucks has TT to/from Rostock daily and how much trailers has TT to/from Rostock ? So with 2 "Fast-marans" it would be 4 attractive departures in 24 hours and 1 extra night-trip is also possible f.ex. in the weekend-nights in july/aug. when always all ferries are fullbooked with holiday-cars (this extra night-round-trip was also with Delphin in the 90ies) + additional trailer-RoRo departures.
But with "my proposal" many customers (touristbuses, caravans, cars and trucks) would change from Scandlines Rostock-Gedser to TT and some customers from Stena Rostock-Trelleborg and some from FRS-Katamaran Sassnitz-Ystad. And especially in winter TT could offer day-shoppingcruises for swedish-people for a cheap special-price what today makes no sense. And also for Norwegians, from Oslo to Munich then ROS-TRE would be a good choice - . With ca. 3:10 hours traveltime ROS-TRE it would be the fastest and best way from/to East-Germany/East-Europe. With Scandlines you must calculate ca. 2 hours for the ferry + ca. 2 hours through Danmark to the Öresund-bridge = ca. 4 hours total (including more km uncomfortable in the car with more costs for fuel etc.). And from Sassnitz the way is still much longer from Berlin, Dresden, Leipzig etc. than to/from Rostock, so maybe the FRS-Katamaran is faster on sea - but the total traveltime from/to big german cities will be longer than with a "Fast-maran" from Rostock.
I think with 2 "Fast-marans" but bigger and also for trucks and a little bit more slowly than the former Delphin (was for only 175 cars and no trucks) would be a very very great chance for TT to be the number 1 from/to Rostock against Scandlines and Stena. Now it is 27 years later than the "Delphin-times", these kind of ferries are much better today than in the 90ies, the building-costs are much lower than for a RoPax and they need a much smaller crew only also. Yes, faster speed costs more fuel, but with LNG and maybe batteries for the port-areas this is not a so big problem today. What they need to pay more for fuel they can save for crew-costs and investment-costs and - not to forget - and more money from a high number of additional new customer-groups, today f.ex. TT has generally no offer for touristbuses from/to Rostock.
Many Trucks on "Fast-marans" on a ca. 2,5 hours route Tenerife-La Palma and Tenerife-Gran Canaria:
This was not my idea...
and i know - YOU do not like Katamarans and Trimarans... . But the Rostock-Trelleborg route is not optimal for a classic RoPax-Route, sleeping-time for truck-drivers is to short and for all other customer-groups the traveltime is too long. And TT could with "my proposal" offer to all customer-groups then much more than Stena could. "Fast-maran" 1 and "Fast-maran" 2 ca. 140m x 35m with capacity for ca. 40 19m trucks + ca. 250 cars in a symmetric timetable with CIRCA 31 knots and traveltime CIRCA 3:10 min every 4:15min hours: 7:00 - 11:15 - 15:30 - 19:45
And then so much as possible of the trailer-customers shall change to Travemünde and Swinousjcie. And if the number of "Rostock-trailers" is still high - THEN use of a additional freighter which also can be a RoPax with small capacity like Marco Polo f.ex. . So it is depending of the freight-customers... . How much trucks has TT to/from Rostock daily and how much trailers has TT to/from Rostock ? So with 2 "Fast-marans" it would be 4 attractive departures in 24 hours and 1 extra night-trip is also possible f.ex. in the weekend-nights in july/aug. when always all ferries are fullbooked with holiday-cars (this extra night-round-trip was also with Delphin in the 90ies) + additional trailer-RoRo departures.
But with "my proposal" many customers (touristbuses, caravans, cars and trucks) would change from Scandlines Rostock-Gedser to TT and some customers from Stena Rostock-Trelleborg and some from FRS-Katamaran Sassnitz-Ystad. And especially in winter TT could offer day-shoppingcruises for swedish-people for a cheap special-price what today makes no sense. And also for Norwegians, from Oslo to Munich then ROS-TRE would be a good choice - . With ca. 3:10 hours traveltime ROS-TRE it would be the fastest and best way from/to East-Germany/East-Europe. With Scandlines you must calculate ca. 2 hours for the ferry + ca. 2 hours through Danmark to the Öresund-bridge = ca. 4 hours total (including more km uncomfortable in the car with more costs for fuel etc.). And from Sassnitz the way is still much longer from Berlin, Dresden, Leipzig etc. than to/from Rostock, so maybe the FRS-Katamaran is faster on sea - but the total traveltime from/to big german cities will be longer than with a "Fast-maran" from Rostock.
I think with 2 "Fast-marans" but bigger and also for trucks and a little bit more slowly than the former Delphin (was for only 175 cars and no trucks) would be a very very great chance for TT to be the number 1 from/to Rostock against Scandlines and Stena. Now it is 27 years later than the "Delphin-times", these kind of ferries are much better today than in the 90ies, the building-costs are much lower than for a RoPax and they need a much smaller crew only also. Yes, faster speed costs more fuel, but with LNG and maybe batteries for the port-areas this is not a so big problem today. What they need to pay more for fuel they can save for crew-costs and investment-costs and - not to forget - and more money from a high number of additional new customer-groups, today f.ex. TT has generally no offer for touristbuses from/to Rostock.
Many Trucks on "Fast-marans" on a ca. 2,5 hours route Tenerife-La Palma and Tenerife-Gran Canaria: